Uncommon Business Networking Tips That Will Actually Get You More Results and Build Relationships with People Who Really Matter! – with Derek Coburn

OWEN: My guest today is Derek Coburn and he is the co-founder of Cadre, which offers successful professionals a new approach to networking. Derek, welcome to the show.DEREK: Hey Owen, thanks for having me, happy to be here.

OWEN: Awesome. Usually the show is all about how we go behind the scenes and talk about how a specific entrepreneur systematizes his entire business. But today’s interview is we’re focusing specifically on your networking process and how it drives results for your business. And so let’s just give the listeners a quick preview as to what they’re going to discover during this interview.

DEREK: Sure. So I recently released a book called Networking is Not Working, and it came out a few weeks ago. And the general premise behind it, which really borrows from a lot of my experiences in terms of works and do not work was calling into question the larger traditional event. And really how effective it is, or is not in my case. And offering up some different alternatives and strategies as a way to trade in the time that maybe folks are spending going to these bigger events and doing things that are a little bit more valuable and productive for their business and their clients.

OWEN: Awesome, and so just so that it’s even clear, during the pre-interview basically we talked about how they’re going to learn how to be the ultimate connector and how to be the ultimate resource. And also, how to identify the relationships with other world-class professionals. And has the value that it delivered to their clients. So these are just some of the ideas that you, the listener, you’ll be discovering during this interview. And so, before we even dive in to your new networking process. Can you share some mind-blowing results that you owe some of your clients have gotten as a result of implementing your new process for networking?

DEREK: Sure, so I would say a lot of the results that I can point to, it’s really about how I put things into practice for my wealth management business, which I began in 1998, and ran that exclusively by itself for 10 years. I still have that business but I was incorporating some networking strategies to really enhance the overall value I was bringing to the table for my clients. And positioning myself to get more introductions to the types of clients that I was looking to meet through a lot of these interactions. We’ve obviously, since going on to start Cadre, and that’s in its 3rd year now. And we’ve been able to create a lot of value for our members by incorporating a lot of what worked for me but also hosting some larger events and doing some other things as well. But I would say some of the big results for me stem from a focus on doing even more for my client. So you mentioned the ultimate tiebreaker. And what the ultimate tie breaker is, it’s this idea that instead of trying to be a little bit better at delivering the core service or core product that we provide, that instead we focus on ways to do more for that relationship that are not directly related or tied to what is expected of us. So to give you the example about big “Aha” moment for me about 5-6 years ago. One of my clients called me up and said, “Derek–” We call him David the landscaper in the book. He said, “Derek, one of my really great clients asked me to take a meeting with another financial adviser. I let them know how happy I was with you and I wasn’t looking to the change.” And they said no pressure at all. I would just be doing them a big favor by taking the meeting. So he let me know about it and he called me the next day after he had the meeting and he said, “I have to share with you what happened.” So at the end of the 45-minute meeting this other adviser suggested that he could have my client invest his money with him instead of with me over the past few years. He would have earned a slightly higher return doing that time period. And my client’s response was, well, Derek’s also referred me to two very big clients who generated over $2 million of business for my firm and my company during that time. So, in theory even if Derek lost a significant portion of my money, which I didn’t do, I still would’ve been better off working with him. And so I think for me this idea of businesses and professionals considering and implementing ways that they can actually be an extension of their client’s business development and marketing departments. And be on the lookout for great opportunities for them, in addition to doing a great job of what it is they’re supposed to do. That really is one of the key pillars to what has allowed me to really grow my wealth management business but continue to do and put into place with Cadre and other things.

OWEN: I’m glad that you shared that story and how that actually is a result of you implementing your networking process in your wealth management business. And so, why is the old way of networking not working?

DEREK: Well, I mentioned this in the book. My friend David Siteman Garland a few years ago suggested that networking events are a lot like nightclubs in that everyone is looking for a professional one-night stand. And I think the reason for that is most people, when we initially approach networking we think that it’s going generate clients for us as a direct result of going. And I call that networking 1.0 and I don’t think it really is all that effective. And most of us figure it out pretty quickly but unfortunately, there are others that we have to be subjected to who still think that’s a possibility. And so I think a lot of the networking books and advise that have evolved over the years of focused on what I call networking 2.0 and that’s just focused on the person that you’re just meeting for the first time. “Oh, nice to meet you” we exchange pleasantries. Now tell me about your business and what a good referral looks like for you. And, A, I think that’s the kind of weird and strange, and I always feel like if somebody says that to me right away I question their motives and their agenda.

OWEN: Because it sounds too good to be true, right?

DEREK: Yeah. Despite the fact I’m a pay it forward person I’m all for that. I liken it to another dating analogy, I liken it to somebody that after meeting someone in the nightclub for 30 seconds they say they’re looking to settle down and get married. Even if the other person’s looking for that as well it still not really the time or the place, and it’s not socially acceptable norm if you will. And so networking, a 3-point at which I’ll get to in a little bit is more about focusing on how you can beyond a doubt looking for ways that you could do more for people that you’re already connected with and that you already have a relationship with.

OWEN: Okay. And one of the things you also mentioned that I highlighted for you was about, what do you mean about email purgatory, meaning that how does email affect the old way of networking. I was trying to see if you can explain that.

DEREK: Sure. So, I suggest and I actually have the math to kind of support that, going to networking events regularly is probably just as ineffective as cold calling. And the difference is with cold calling you get this negative– that’s how I build my business and you had to be constantly subject it to this negative vibe. People hanging up on you, people blowing you off for meetings. And I think the reason why networking events are not really held in the same vein is because you could go to networking events a couple of times a week and meet perfectly nice people and have pleasant conversations with them. And without that sort of pain of having to deal with the rejection, you just continue to do it.  And without realizing, you’re probably spending 7 to 8 hours of work time at these events. And so I think even when you do go to an event and you are successful in meeting somebody that you feel like, hey, we can build on this, we can get to know each other better and learn more about how we can help each other out. I often find that 50% of those people never end up being worthwhile connections because they don’t know how to manage their email. And I think these individuals that I’m referring to have good intentions and they want to develop these relationships, but they’re just not organized, they don’t have systems in place. And so you send an email or two and you never hear back from them. And so I think it’s just another pitfall of the big networking experience where you go to these events, you have a hard time meeting the people that you want to meet in the first place. But then even when you do it’s really hard to deepen the relationship from that point.

OWEN: I totally get that now. So let’s jump right in to the new process for networking and let’s talk about it. So, what is it? Let’s go into the details about this thing.

DEREK: Yeah. So, I mentioned networking 3.0 with a focus on your clients. And I shared the ultimate tiebreaker example. And the reason why that was such a big moment for me, a big epiphany for me is that I was doing this sort of thing but I wasn’t being intentional about it. And so, in terms of how this new type of networking works at a larger event, although I think that there are far more effective ways to network if you’re goal is to develop meaningful, authentic, professional relationships that don’t have an agenda, that aren’t about just like swapping referrals. The focus really at the larger event would be if I were to meet another person and details me what he does, and then I say I’m a financial adviser. And his response is, “Well, that’s great. I’m not going to need you. I’ll need you in a few years. But in the meantime I’m saving up all of my money for a new house.” Well if he’s being sincere about that, I can take that information and I can introduce him to a real estate agent or two in my network. And that becomes a very low-risk, very high-reward introduction. Because I can tell the person I already have a relationship with, “Look, I don’t know this person that well. He seems like a good guy, but it could be a really good opportunity for you.” And that for me is often much better. When I say low-risk, high-reward, going the networking 2.0 route where you’re trying to figure out ways that you can maybe give referrals or find opportunities you don’t know that well, you have to put your clients and people that you know on the line in that scenario.

OWEN: Yeah.

DEREK: And it’s easy to get burnt that way. And so that’s one strategy where I’ll often put that into affect more online than offline. But that is hopefully a good story, a good way to describe how it works in action.

OWEN: And based on looking at the book, it basically breaks down the whole new process of networking into like a framework of four different steps. So being the ultimate tiebreaker, the ultimate resource, the need for the mindset shift, and then the ultimate connector, which is actually an acronym for something, which you’ll get to explain as well. So you’ve talked about the tiebreaker part but when you say the ultimate resource what are you talking about there?

DEREK: So in an effort to sort of be somebody that can identify opportunities for your clients you’re going to have people coming to you. “Hey, do you know a good plumber? Do you know a good IT company? And it’s important that you expand your network and have relationships even if they aren’t your clients so that you can continue to be the go to person for them. If somebody contacts me and asks for a recommendation and I come up short, then maybe they don’t call me the next time. And that next time it could’ve been a great opportunity for somebody that is important to me, and somebody that I could’ve done something great for. And so, the idea with the ultimate resource is that you may have clients that are not the business owner, their responsibility is not bringing in new business. But you can still separate yourself from the pack and differentiate yourself by saying, hey, I can make your life easier. Whenever you have a new hire you have to make, or you’re considering vendors, or whatever the case may be feel free to come to me. And often times, when you’re making those connections and you are connecting them with exactly the right company or person to solve the problem that they were looking to solve, that’s going to further cement your role and the service that you provide them above and beyond just doing a great job in that department.

OWEN: And then also you mentioned the third part of the framework is also the need for the mindset shift. Let’s talk about that as well,

DEREK: Well, the mindset shift is really, I think that hearing some of these ideas I don’t think anybody is going to say, “Gosh, Derek came up with these revolutionary ideas that are just so incredibly unique and different. I think more people will probably say, “Why haven’t I already thought about this, right?” And so, when I say the mindset shift’s important because most people don’t show up at an event, or most people don’t show up at some type of function thinking about all of their clients, and people in their network, and how they can potentially make some connections and identify opportunities for them. They’re just going there really with no agenda. And if anything it’s, hey, maybe I can have a couple of nice conversations, maybe I’ll get a client, maybe I will meet somebody that I can develop a relationship with. But that’s what I mean. It’s just as simple as thinking about it and observing, and being on the lookout for it than anything else.

OWEN: And the ultimate connector which is actually an acronym. Can you even break that down too?

DEREK: Yeah, so the connector acronym that I use in the book. What I did in my wealth management practice was I said, “I’m going to trade-in the time that I’m spending going to these larger events that really are not helping me accomplish what I want to accomplish which is building my network and finding ways to do more for my clients. And I’m going to form my own 20-25 person networking group.”

OWEN: Yeah.

DEREK: And I did this before Cadre was ever even a thought or a concept in my brain. I brought together my clients, some of their top professional relationships. Some others that I handpicked and identified. And I offer up a template and way for other people to do this. And I think I did it in a way so that even if somebody is not interested in going through the entire process there’s going to be a lot of really good one off ideas or strategies that they can take away and implement. But connector spelled with one T is client. So that focus on your existing clients and bringing them the right ones, the business owners, the ones that can benefit by meeting and connecting with other professionals into the fold. O stands for opening doors, and that involves branching out from your clients. And that’s the introductions made by your clients to other advisers, other professionals that they think highly of. And it’s identifying people they don’t know it all through Twitter, through LinkedIn, through other mostly online platforms and connecting with them. The N stands for nuclei, which is really this idea of being at the center of everything. And coordinating these online and offline exchanges if you will. The E stands for events and that could be hosting round table lunches at restaurants. It could be hosting wine tasting events, it could be going to other people’s events and leveraging them. Hey, there’s a great speaker, go back to a great client of yours to say hey, would you like to join me for this?

OWEN: Yeah.

DEREK: Next C stands for community and that’s all about keeping people connected, whether it’s forming an online Google community, or Facebook, or LinkedIn group. But it’s also leveraging a lot of the tools. I’m a big fan of Contactually, are you familiar with Contactually?

OWEN: Yeah.

DEREK: That’s a great tool that I use to really stay in touch and stay top of mind with all of my best relationships. And then the TOR stands for trigger ongoing reciprocation. And what I mean by that is even if you are someone who’s adding just a ton of value. You’re referring your client’s business, you’re making relevant connections, you’re doing a lot of really good things, you are going to have a lot of people that want to help you. But you’re also not going to have anyone who’s going to set aside 30 minutes on a random afternoon to say, “Okay, I want to focus on Derek, or Owen, and his business, what I can do for him.” And so it’s this idea of putting the people that want to help you really get a position to make it easy for them to do just that.

OWEN: So basically, this is the very point where the triggering ongoing reciprocation part is where you’re actually engineering you getting a new client, more clients, and more customers out of the whole networking thing which you already mentioned all the different steps before that. But this is where you’re actually engineering this person who you’ve build a relationship with to turn them to get to referrals and clients, right?

DEREK: Yeah, there’s a lot of people I think that hope this person should, I’ve given this person a referral, they should give me a referral and then they get upset when it doesn’t happen. But then really, have you effectively described what a good client for you looks like? Do you produce some kind of content, blog, or do you host events that you can allow them to like other people to attend? And so, you never wanted to be in the position where you’re saying, “Hey, can you send me some referrals.” Because even if the people want to help you, you’re not giving them a lot to go on. So, a lot of what I’m talking about, it could be a very basic level like creating email templates, right? So you may want to refer me to a friend of yours but you sit down at the computer and you’re like, “How should I frame this? How do each of them want to be introduced?” Then the phone rings, you lose track of time and then it never happens. And so, I’ll create different type of email templates that my clients can copy and paste or modify a little bit, and make it really easy for them. And one of the advantages of that is obviously they actually send it. But the other big advantage is that you are having them frame the introduction in a way that makes the most sense for you.

OWEN: Okay, good. So given that this is all about networking to use this whole 3.0 formula to network and at the end of the day you’re going to end up with clients. You mentioned something about identifying triggering events. Can you explain what you mean by that?

DEREK: Sure. This is kind of what I’m referring to about making– it ties in a little bit to this idea of making it easy for your clients and for other people in your network to help you. And I’ll use the example of me as a financial adviser that I had a number of people that if someone approached them and said, “I need recommendation for a financial adviser” they would have said, “Oh you should meet Derek, he’s great.” But the problem is most people don’t say that. Most people will talk about issues, or events, or things going on in their lives that would really indicate– or be a good leader I guess in terms of identifying a perspective client. So for me as a financial adviser the people that wanted to help me to be limited to just waiting on people to ask them for a specific recommendation for a financial adviser. So I would tell them, look, if you know anyone who’s thinking about selling their business in the next 2 years. If you know anyone that just had a baby or is going to be having a baby in the next few months. If you know anyone who has ageing parents with health or financial concerns and they’re trying to figure out a way to manage that, or learn more about it, or help them with what they’re going through, these are all things that I can help with. And so, let’s take SweetProcess for an example, right? There aren’t a lot of people walking around who are saying, “I need a great online software program to document all of my systems.” What they’re saying is that, gosh, everytime we bring a new client people are confused about who’s responsible for doing what. And they aren’t really sure of the role they’re supposed to play. Or if you sent this new client, this one type of a document, when you sent this other client a different type of a document. And so, I’m just making these up on the fly, right? But that’s what I mean by triggering events.

OWEN: So you’re basically looking for events in the lives of potential would be customers that would even make them to start thinking, okay, maybe I need in your case now a financial adviser. But I’m also wondering how is that different from when you say identifying your client triggers?

DEREK: So, in order for you, in order for me, in order for anyone to put this idea of being the ultimate tie breaker in place where you’re out and about identifying opportunities for your clients. You need to understand what your client’s triggers and triggering events are as well. And the first step is really going through that process yourself and making sure that you’re clear on what others need to be on the lookout for, or need to be listening for to help you. But after you go through that process yourself, you’re going to be qualified to help your clients go through that process. So I think a lot of us have clients and yeah we know that they are an IT company, and that’s all we know. And so, it’s really saying, “Hey, Mrs. Client, this is the new role that I want to provide for you. In addition to doing a great job as your financial adviser, I also want to really start focusing on becoming an extension of your business development team. And I want to get a better feel for how I’ll know if I’m talking with someone who is a potential client for you.”

OWEN: Okay, so I guess what I’m hearing from that is in as much as you are showing them what events or what scenarios make it easy for them to identify that they should be making a referral to you. You are also doing the same to try and help them identify with them based on the type of industry or type of solution they provide. What are their own events and triggers as well. So that way it’s a conversation where they’re learning yours and you’re learning theirs as well.

DEREK: Yeah, but I’m keeping them very separate. For me I have mine in place, and by me going through that exercise that put me in the position where I felt like I could help them do it as well. But when I’m having these interviews with my client and sharing this new role that I was going to be serving them in, I wasn’t making it about me at all. Now, often times they would say, “So give me an example of what you mean.” And I would share some of my triggering events the way I just share them with you to give them a better feel for what I wanted them to think about, what I wanted them to convey to me.

OWEN: Definitely. And so, you also mentioned that this whole thing about networking is to open more doors and networking, and basically grow the network. And so, how exactly do you do that? Because one of the things you mentioned is expand both quality and quantity of the network. Let’s talk about that.

DEREK: Yeah, so I will say this. I think one of the main reasons why networking doesn’t work for most people is that whether or not your networking activities are successful or not is usually directly correlated with the number of people who are there for the same reasons as you are, right? So, it’s much more of a turn to quality over quantity. I’m not in a hurry to have a massive network. The first 2 years that Cadre was in existence we practically kick out or removed 25 members. So the numbers weren’t as high as high as they could have been but the quality stayed at a very high level. And so I just want to say that just to be clear that I don’t think it’s about massive network, I actually feel like it’s more about finding ways to go much deeper with a high quality network.

OWEN: Yeah, and so, one of the things you mentioned is you have to create an ideal networking profile. So how does the listener go about doing that?

DEREK: So there’s plenty of books out there that talk about creating your ideal client profile. And that’s when you get to a certain point in your business where you actually have the luxury of being able to say no to people.

OWEN: Yeah.

DEREK: You’re not a good fit for me. And I don’t think that what you need is what we can provide you with. And companies get good at that. But when it comes to networking we don’t really think much about are we spending our time with the people that we really should be spending our time with. And one of the things I mentioned is that the reason you don’t see a lot of really successful people, maybe the people that you want to meet if you go to these events. They’re not there as often as you would like them to be because as the value of their business and the value of their client relationships increases, so does the value of their time. And I think if somebody had– going back to the ideal client profile, if somebody created that and had nothing but ideal clients and align out the door of additional ideal clients that they just don’t have time to deal with, those people would never go to networking events. And I don’t think that many companies are there yet, if we’re being really honest we’re probably working with some people that probably aren’t a great fit and were trying to figure out how to get away from that. But if you have less time to go to events, if you have less time to engage with clients, you have to be really mindful about how you’re spending your time and who you’re spending it with.

OWEN: I guess maybe to even make this even more like an exercise, maybe you can choose a specific type of business and then maybe go to a quick exercise of how that person who owns that type of business can create an ideal networking profile. Do you get what I’m saying?

DEREK: Yeah. I have a lose version of an ideal networking profile. I use the term more to compare it to– hey, a lot of times we go through this big process to figure out who is our ideal client. But there’s a term that– I forget who use this but they called it passion prospecting. And it was this idea that you were going to find the things that you’re passionate about, that you’re interested in, whether it’s golf, or wine, or travel, or the nationals, the sports team, whatever the case maybe. And you’re going to find clients who also share that passion and find ways through your clients and through other means to meet more who are also interested in the same things that you are.

OWEN: Okay, I get that.

DEREK: So I’ll give you an example. I’ll share like a wine tasting– I was leveraging wine tastings very effectively for a period of time. And what I mean by that is the first year that I hosted these I did four, I did them on a quarterly basis. And I approached them as first and foremost as a client appreciation event that I wanted to provide a really great experience for some of my best clients. And give them a way to not only have more interaction with me and my team, but also as a way for them to spend some of that time with their friends and people in the their network. And so, I would effectively be bringing together, creating an ideal networking group if you will by building out these events around common passions. And encouraging my clients and giving them the opportunity to invite others who also enjoyed, in this case, drinking good wine and having some good food. But they were always successful first and foremost because it was doing something great for my clients. And worst-case scenario, my clients come, they get to bring some of their colleagues, or friends, or what have you and have a great time. But what happens more often than not at the very least, these guest of theirs start thinking, “My financial adviser doesn’t host wine tasting events and invite me to these things. I don’t have an opportunity to share these experiences with my friends.” What I like to say is that for a lot of us, our biggest competitor is indifference. There aren’t that many people walking around saying they love working with one of your competitors. But they were good and there’s no real need to change or do anything differently. And the more that you can host events like this and do other things that I talk about in the book, the more you have a chance you disrupt that indifference and have them re-think whether or not they really are working with the person or the firm who’s the best fit for them.

OWEN: Yeah, and I get how you open the doors and you create unique experiences for your clients, also invite their friends and stuff like that. And basically creating the ideal networking profile. But I’m also wondering, you’ve mentioned something about filling in the gaps. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

DEREK: So you’re referring that, okay, it’s with opening doors, right?

OWEN: Yeah.

DEREK: Alright. So that is where if you’re building out this networking group of 20 or 25 people. Or even if you’re not, even if you’re just looking to connect with other professionals that you would like to know better. There are ways to do that, and I think the best ways, at least for me, have been leveraging LinkedIn or Twitter. And so, what I love about Twitter, so many people complain when others don’t follow them back. I’m following this person they’re not following me. I’ve never cared who follows me back. It doesn’t matter to me because the reason why Twitter is so powerful is that as long as you can listen and hear what other people are saying, and you’re listening to the right people, you identify the types of professionals that you think you’re in a similar market. You think that there are going to be opportunities for you to make contributions to them. As long as you can hear what they’re saying, it doesn’t matter whether they’re paying attention to you or not. Because if you are able to start adding value for them they’ll start paying attention to you.

OWEN: I get that.

DEREK: So, I’ve developed a number of great relationships on Twitter by just having conversations of people. And approaching it like it’s a big networking event that’s always on where I can filter out a lot of the people on there who I have no interest in building a relationship with. And really focus on through list and other things, really focus on the people that I do.

OWEN: So is that how you fill-in the gaps when you mentioned that in the book. I’m just curious by that.

DEREK: Yeah, so that’s one example. And another example with LinkedIn is going back to the idea of being the ultimate resource. I would often time, especially when I first building my network, expanding my network, I would have somebody say, “Can you recommend a great loan officer.” And if I didn’t have a great loan officer to recommend to them I would then go into LinkedIn and I would use their search functionality, and sort by CEO president, owner of lending companies in Washington, D.C., and sort by second connection so that we at least had somebody in common.

OWEN: Yeah.

DEREK: And I would send them an InMail and I would say, “Hey, I was recently asked for a referral for a loan officer, and I came up empty-handed, and it’s important that I am a resource and somebody that my clients and my network can turn to when they need something. And I’d love to spend 10 minutes with you on the phone to learn more about your business. So that the next time I get asked I’ll know if you’re the right person to connect my client with.”

OWEN: And so what I get from that too is when they ask you for someone like this and you don’t have that resource in your book, you’re actively going out to fill out and fill-in the gap. And then when you find the person you make sure that the person matches your next working profile first of all and it’s the right person. And I’m also assuming that not only that, you now also be inviting this person next time you’re having your networking events, you’re also inviting this person to be part of it too.

DEREK: Exactly. You broke up on me for a little bit there, can you say the last part of what you asked me?

OWEN: What I was saying is that maybe now you’re having your clients are asking for maybe a lawyer and you don’t have that lawyer already in the network. You’re going out proactively to find the right fit, right? And then, on top of that, not only are you finding that person, you’re spending time with that person, in this case the lawyer, to make sure that they match your networking profile, right? And then on top of that, now, next you’re having your networking events you are asking that person to come and be part of that event.

DEREK: Yeah, and  some cases for sure. For me I get anywhere from 5 to 10 emails a week from people in Cadre, people that are clients of mine, or people that have just been to an event or two of mine to say, “Hey, do you know somebody really good who does, fill in the blank.” And so I know that the more people that I have asking me that, the more I’m going to be able to do for my clients, my members, the people that are important to me over time. If start telling people no, no, no, then those people are going to stop calling me. They’re going to find some other resource or some other way to determine who they need to talk to, to help them out with something. And so there have been cases where I’m never thinking about my benefit, I’m thinking about the role that I play and how I can eventually create a lot more value for all the people in my world. We’ve had probably 3 or 4 different Cadre members who resign from Cadre and I referred them business opportunities. And in every scenario they were surprised. Wow, I’m surprised that you referred me a client. In all these cases there wasn’t somebody in Cadre who did what they did. But I think the expectation was, “Oh, you’re not going to help me since I’m not a client or a member anymore.” But at the end of the day if I still felt they were really great at what they did and I knew that they would be able to provide the solution that a person needed then I’m still going to do that all day long. Because it indirectly benefits all of the other people in my network, so that the next time that person has a need for something they’re going to continue to come back to me.

OWEN: Awesome. And so after you opened the door for the network you said that you also want to nucleate and basically become the nucleus of the group. And let’s talk about some ways in which that can be done.

DEREK: Well, I’m trying to think about what we can talk about that hasn’t already been mentioned.

OWEN: So I think one of the things in there was that you said paint a new picture.

DEREK: Yes. So this is the idea that if you are bringing the group together and actually, formally putting together this networking group of 20 or 25 people. That a lot of times if you have the right people and they are really successful they’re probably going to feel the same way about networking and networking groups that I felt about networking, and still do feel about networking events and their working groups. And so, you really need to sell them on the idea. Remember, these are going to be busy, successful people if you do it the right way who have limited time to network. You need to paint a picture for them of why them spending their time spending time with you and the things you’re putting together is going to be a good use of their time. And first and foremost it was always about pulling people together that had a shared mindset, a shared approach to developing relationships. It was always people who were go givers, pay it forward individuals who enjoy meeting others and learning more about how they could help them as above and beyond pushing their own stuff, or agenda, or product, or whatever.

OWEN: When the group was being formed, how do you even identify the cream of the crop at this point?

DEREK: So I had conversations with my clients and those that was sort of the cornerstone. And then the conversations that I ended up having people I met through my clients, other people in my network that I reconnected with and then these other individuals that I push. Because often times when you’re meeting people on Twitter or LinkedIn and you schedule that 10-minute phone call, if that was all about them, me, me, me, and here’s what I need, and they didn’t seem like they were open to this idea of collaboration and really identifying ways to provide value, then I wouldn’t pursue them. I wouldn’t invite them to be a part of things that I was organizing or putting together. And the book actually I even provide a link to one of the templates that I use which is just a basic spreadsheet and it listed the people I was having conversations with. And my notes from the calls and whether I felt they would be a good fit, a good person to ask to participate in what I was building.

OWEN: Okay. And so now the group is being formed and you’re basically identifying the cream of the crop. But at the end of the day this whole networking thing all lies around the ability to create events where people now would come and share their relationship with one another. And even build more meaningful relationships with one another. So what will you say are some of the things to be mindful of when it comes to creating these events, which attract the network to come to the event? Do you understand my question?

DEREK: Yeah, the key for me were these round table lunches, especially living here in Washington, D.C., traffic’s really bad so early morning and later at night is usually not the best time for doing these events. So I would identify restaurants that had good private rooms, dining options if you will, would talk to them about– let them know that I’m looking to do at least one, maybe two lunches a month at their restaurant that I would be bringing together 10 to 15 CEO’s at each lunch and be creating meaningful exposure for their restaurant. I would ask them to coordinate and make sure it was okay for them to provide separate checks for everybody while we were there. And another thing that I did was I would always schedule two. So even with Cadre once that we do round table lunches we’ll schedule 4 or 5 different dates to give people different options to allow them to not meet with the same people every single time we have a get together. And we’ll put a few of them out there and we’ll say let us know the ones you can attend or can’t attend. We use a cool tool called Doodle for that. And people can say these are the 3 dates that are good for me, this one I could do if you really need me to but it’s not preferred. And or these are the ones that I’m not able to make.

OWEN: What I get from that is that yes, events are necessary for the network to happen but it’s really taking a different way to look at the events and say how can I engineer this event to remove as much friction as possible. And also to add as much value for the person who’s coming to the event. So it’s really looking at taking out friction from the events and adding more value. That’s kind of what I get from what you’re saying.

DEREK: Yeah, definitely.

OWEN: And then, also now, let’s talk about some of the tools that you use. Because when you’re trying to build a community like this there’s several tools that you use on a regular basis. So let’s talk about some of those tools that you’re using.

DEREK: Yes. So earlier I mentioned Contactually. And Contactually, it basically serves as my CRM for Cadre. And what I really love about it is that it’s designed as a way to stay in-touch with your most important relationships. And so, while there are so many things that it does that I really enjoy, the core functionality of it is you can create buckets for different people in your network. And so it could be A clients, it could be centers of influence. And then assign a peer, your perspective clients, what have you. And then assign a certain period of time, 30 days, 60 days, 180 days. And what it does, it just runs in the background of your email and it acknowledges when you send them something or when they send you something. You can even have it integrate with LinkedIn, and Twitter, and your phone, everything. And if 30 days goes by and you have not made any contact with this person that apparently is very important to you because you want to make sure you talk to them every 30 days, you’ll get an email reminder saying you haven’t followed up with this person. And what’s great about it is that if you follow-up with them 5 days into that 30-day window, then the new 30-day period will start. So it’s not anything you have to go in and modify.

OWEN: Okay, so I get how Contractually help with you staying in contact with your network. But you remember how the last part of this whole networking process is also to trigger ongoing reciprocation where you get something back out of it. Is there any tools that you use to help to trigger the people who are part of the network so that you can get some value back out of it. Are there tools that you use for this?

DEREK: You mean like actual apps or tools like that, or do you just mean certain strategies or ideas?

OWEN: Yeah, tools that you use or strategies or ideas that will help. Because you’ve gone through how you’ve built out the network, right? But at the end of the day you have the TOR, trigger ongoing reciprocation which to me this is where after I’ve done all these work I’m getting value out of this, right? So, I’m wondering if there are tools that you are using to make it easy at this very stage for yourself?

DEREK: The only thing that I include in that segment that is digital is like this idea of providing email templates, right?

OWEN: Yeah.

DEREK: But a couple of the ideas that I share are really, I’m borrowing from the dating world. So if networking events are like nightclubs, then all of the dating books out there– How to find the love of your life or how to meet my soul mate, I’m making them up, they don’t begin– introduction, continue going to nightclubs and bars all the time if you want to find your wife for the rest of your life. They don’t say that, right? But yet all the networking guides, books, even the good ones. Articles, what have you, they all center around going to the larger event. But if we look at these dating books, what they’re really talking about is double dating, and hosting dinner parties, and leveraging friends. And so, a couple of examples, one of the things that work really work for me, I call it the 3 for 1. And so if you are someone who, if you play golf and you’re putting together a golf for– You have 4 tickets to go to some type of an event. What I always did and what a lot of people do is they call up three clients. You’re a good client, do you want to join me? And that’s good, that’s better than doing nothing. But what I think is even better and what I implemented and started doing with a lot of success was I would just say to one client, “Do you want to join for this, and I’d like you to have the other two tickets, or other two spots in the golf course to invite someone from your world. And if you invite someone that you think is a great potential client for me, that’s wonderful but no pressure. I just want you to have a good time and have an opportunity to share a great experience with people that are important to you.” And what happens obviously more often than not is you’re spending time with these individuals and it has the same effect that hosting these wine tasting events had.

OWEN: Awesome, and so last question. What is will you say is the very next step that someone who is listening to this entire interview up to this point should take in order to get started with implementing this new process of networking?

DEREK: Yeah. if they agree with this idea, if they are listening and saying, “I’m going to these larger events and I’ve never really bothered to ask why or really evaluated what it’s accomplishing for me. Then I go into a lot more detail in my book. My book is 2.99 on Kindle, right?

OWEN: Yeah.

DEREK: And so, everything in that book I’m audacious enough and I actually believe that it’s going to work for everybody but I think a lot of what I laid out. And you were kind enough to mention some of the tools and some of the processes and the templates that I really give everyone sort of the step-by-step, whether it’s the integrated approach to forming a group or whether it’s just taking one idea from one chapter or another and just focusing on that.

OWEN: Awesome. What’s the best way for the listener to connect with you and thank you for doing this interview?

DEREK: So they can find me at derekcoburn.com and every couple of weeks I write an article and share some ideas on networking, and connecting, and marketing, or what have you. And I’d probably spend most of my time online from a connecting standpoint on Twitter, and there I’m cadredc.

OWEN: And final question, was there a question that you are wishing that I asked you that for some reason or the other I didn’t get to ask you? If so, post that question and why?

DEREK: I think you covered a lot of it. Let me ask you this. If there was another question that you didn’t– you really covered a lot man, you prepared and I appreciate that. I can tell that you spent some time with the book. So I’m not sure, I would almost always have an answer for that question but in this case I think you did a great job covering it all.

OWEN: I guess the question I would ask is this way of thinking about networking, right? What books besides yours might have influenced this way of thinking? That way the listener can also check out those books as well.

DEREK: Yeah. So I think one of the main reasons that I wrote my book was I was very frustrated with the books that were available on the topic. And I think that there are some that are good and I think that any one that views networking or wants to leverage networking as a way to get clients or find a new job, some of those things, my book’s not going to help them at all. There’s going to be other books out there that are going to be better resources for them. And so, I think a couple of people that I admire, they have written whole books on the subject but I really like Gary Vaynerchuk’s commentary. He writes articles frequently on networking, same with Peter Shankman. But part of me wishes there was more people out there that were questioning the sacred [Unknown word 00:53:00] is the large networking event. But if that were the case, and I probably wouldn’t be here talking with you right now because I wouldn’t have written my book.

OWEN: And Derek, thanks for doing the interview, I really appreciate you spending time with us.

DEREK: Yeah man, thanks again for the opportunity. I really appreciate it.

OWEN: And we’re done.