How Christoper M Duncan created Freedom in His Business, Made Time to Do What He Loves and How You Can Too!

OWEN: My guest today Christopher M Duncan, and he is the founder of M2M Media. Christopher, welcome to the show.

CHRISTOPHER: Owen, it’s so good to be here. I’m very excited to be talking to you and I think every company and every entrepreneur needs to be able to create processes. So I’m excited to be sharing something that’s worked for me.

OWEN: Awesome. This podcast is all about bringing in entrepreneurs like yourself who have been able to systematize your business operations so that it actually runs without you having to be there. And we want to keep this listener listening right now all the way to the end. So give us some mind blowing results that you now experience as a result of going through the process of systematizing and automating your business.

CHRISTOPHER: The most mind blowing thing is this, is being able to have money in my bank and my teams working without me and being able to travel the world. There is nothing cooler in my eyes than being able to have a business on autopilot. And that’s exactly what I’m going to be sharing with everyone listening today.

OWEN: That is awesome. How has your company been transformed as a result of you systematizing your business?

CHRISTOPHER: I guess it’s really allowed me to focus on my genius. And I think that is that every single person has a genius that they should be focusing on. And all the little things really get in the way. They really, really, really do. And it’s allowed me to not have to keep doing those mind-numbing things that we don’t want to do and actually be creative. I truly think, and this is in the book Thinking, Fast and Slow, that we’ve only got 4 or 5 hours a day where our attention is actually at its full capacity. It’s the time we’re just using it on noise and other things. It’s allowed me to be more creative, be more of a genius, and allowed me to grow my company much faster.

OWEN: That’s the benefits of systems for the business, but I’m wondering in your personal life how has your personal life been transformed as a result of systematizing your business.

CHRISTOPHER: I guess that’s the best thing Owen, is it allows me to spend time with my fiancé. It allows me to spend time with my friends. And it allows me that space. Right now coming live from San Diego where I just travel down to and I’m able to be down here and take 4 days off and spend it with Harriet. Typically on a day-to-day basis, I’m playing tennis once a day, or reading books for hours. It actually means I get a personal life. And when I started man, for sure, but I think most entrepreneurs they go into their business wanting more freedom and they end up losing it all and losing a lot of their life to their businesses, and a lot of times a lot of their life.

OWEN: And we’re going to talk about what exactly was it like for you back then. But before we even get there I’m wondering since you have systems in place in your business that actually allow it to run without you I’m wondering what’s been the longest time you’ve actually been away from the business.

CHRISTOPHER: I’m kind of crazy because I keep on just starting new businesses. I run eight at the moment. However there is one that I haven’t had to do anything more than a 30 minute check-in a month since 2014. It’s a small business, it’s a six-figure business but it’s also on autopilot, the product ship. So what’s that? That’s 18 months.

OWEN: That’s great. Without having free time you won’t be able to run as many businesses just so we can whet the listener’s appetite. Can you just give us some idea of what these other businesses are?

CHRISTOPHER: Yeah, sure. We have a digital media company. We have a property company. We have two education companies in different places. We have a dating company. We have an automation systemizing company very similar to you guys. That’s a general scope of the main companies. We have different products that we ship as well.

OWEN: Okay. And so we decided that the focus of this interview should be on the digital media company that you have, M2M Media. What exactly does that company do and what big pain or problem do you solve for your customers in that company?

CHRISTOPHER: Here’s the thing Owen is I think fish should swim and monkey should climb trees. It’s often entrepreneurs who are great at one area of their business trying to jump into other areas. My genius is in marketing and sales. And I’ve always been able to have successful companies because of that. So what I noticed I guess about a year ago was the amount of confusion in the market when it came to digital marketing and digital media. There are all these amazing people have amazing products and services, doctors, chiropractors, lawyers, coaches, authors, speakers, people have products they want to put on Amazon yet nobody knows about them. The world’s best kept secret. What we do is we find companies and businesses where the world’s best kept secret help them make more money and more time doing what they’re the best at.

OWEN: That’s awesome. And so I’m wondering, in this very business now M2M how many full-time employees do you have?

CHRISTOPHER: Yeah. It’s around about 40 across the world. We have 30 all over the Philippines, a few in the United States, a couple in Australia, a couple in Singapore, and a couple at Canada is our managers. But our main focus is in the Philippines. Oh, we have some Indian workers full-time now as well.

OWEN: Awesome. Is this company profitable? What was last year’s annual revenue and probably what do you expect to generate this year. I’m curious.

CHRISTOPHER: It’s small. We’re a small company. We did just over 2 million in sales in the last year and projected to really grow that this year, looking to really scale up.

OWEN: Now that we’ve given the listener the benefits of systematizing the business and what you’re actually enjoying right now. It wasn’t always like this. So let’s go back to the beginning of the story. Take us back to when this business itself was not systematized and automated like it is right now. What was wrong with it?

CHRISTOPHER: Everything. And that’s because it’s not a business unless it’s systemized. Unless you have something working without you it’s actually just a glorified job. Self-employed is worse than a job in a lot of instances because you have more pressure and more stress. And I think the biggest thing is this, is that without a system you’re redoing the same thing over, and over, and over again. We installed a little strategy and your listener might want to write this down is that we do it once we systemize it. So I only ever do something once. I systemize it. The next time I’m teaching someone else how to do it. So right back then you try to get staff to do it but without a system. They would just screw it up and they’d have to redo their work. I had a bunch of staff. I had to really babysit. And sometimes it actually got to the point where the staff would actually cost me more time. So you can imagine I’m paying them and then redoing and helping them with their work and really getting those scales and making less money with more stress, working more hours with staff than without it. And the real key point was that I had no freedom. And that’s the most important thing to me is to be able to have a life. And so I was in this business pulling my hair out Owen. This sucks.

OWEN: Yeah. And during the pre-interview you mentioned how for 3 months without any sleep or whatever. Talk about that. I just want to share with the listeners.

CHRISTOPHER: Right back at the beginning when we’re really getting moving I didn’t know how to systemize, so it was all down to me. But I’m also very committed and most key entrepreneurs are super committed to delivering on their promises. It was like two and a half hour sleep. I got to the point I couldn’t function. I put on nearly 20 pounds completely burnt out, continually just putting out another fire, another fire, another fire. And I literally remember the moment. I was sitting at my desk some early hours of the morning like 2 am. I had to be back at 8 am, meaning I had to be awake at 6 am, so 4 hours contemplating whether or not I even bother leaving the office. And I remember those words go through my head, I should just go back and get the job.

OWEN: Wow. And how did that feel being an entrepreneur, having this idea of freedom, and then now telling yourself you want to go get a job?

CHRISTOPHER: There was a sense of relief at that moment because it’s like, that would just be so easy. But then you also got that same nagging call inside you that you know you just can’t. It’s not an option but you entertain the thought for a moment and then you know underneath it there’s just not an option. You have to try to figure this out.

OWEN: I’m wondering why wasn’t that an option. Did you feel unemployable? What was happening with that?

CHRISTOPHER: I guess for me failure is not an option. And to go back to being in a job and working for someone else meant that I was taking a step back. And I’ve got this belief that I guess serves me that since I can figure anything out and I just needed to ask myself some different questions. That was the key… It’s something that other people have successful businesses that work without them and I don’t. So there’s only one factor here. It must be. So that was something.

OWEN: Was this your breaking point? Or was there something else that actually was a breaking point that you said, “I have to change this business and get it systematized.” If so, what happened?

CHRISTOPHER: It was the start I guess of the breaking point. I went and took a holiday, January 2013, sitting in Thailand, enjoying some time off. And I remember it because I got to a place where I thought I had actually solved that problem. I had some coaching staff in my business and a couple of sales people. And I finally had a moment to actually stand back and look at what they were doing. And I remember looking at what they were doing and literally what they had done in that week I could’ve done in 4 or 5 hours, and I’ll be paying them like a 40-hour workweek. I got so angry. And first I blamed them, thought that they were being negative or dishonest. And then I just actually realized it wasn’t their fault. Most of the stuff that they were doing didn’t matter. I knew the answer. I knew how to get done what they could do because I’d already understood it. But I didn’t have a process. I didn’t have a system that would actually show them what to do. So they would just make all the same mistakes had already made. And I’m not a systems person. This is the hardest lesson for me so it’s crazy that I’m on a podcast with somebody like you that is so into it, because I wasn’t. Now, it’s everything. I remember that moment because that was the real break. Six months earlier I’m sitting there going… But that was the point I broke.

OWEN: I like to sit down on this, what you just said a little bit. Dive into it a little bit. You mentioned that you were looking at what they were doing and realize that you could’ve done everything only in 5 hours. Just so that’s concrete for the listener, what specifically were they doing and what should they have been doing?

CHRISTOPHER: It all came down to marketing and fulfillment. The way that they were communicating with clients, the way that they were reaching out and prospecting, prospecting was a big thing. Sales and marketing is my game, and to watch somebody do that ineffectively was horrible to me. And it was all these wasted moments between moments because they didn’t know what to do in their down time. For example they would have 2-3 hours between a phone call and they would choose to do nothing. And that was only because it didn’t have a system which I have now which is what to do at downtime. And so there was all of these gaps in their work week that they literally didn’t know what to do so they would try do to some things, and they would sit around, or they would talk and I was paying full-time for that. It was a huge journey. I was so imperfect at this.

OWEN: During the pre-interview you mentioned something that your business partner at the time said to you. What was that?

CHRISTOPHER: Basically she knew, she was telling me, “Look, I don’t know why we’re paying them so much. I don’t know what we’re doing with all these staff and it’s not working. How do we solve this? Me and her way was so similar that we’d both overlook the fact that we didn’t have any systems in place. And so we kind of looked at each other and realized how much money were just spending on nothing. And we decided that we needed somebody else. And it was a humbling moment because until that point i thought, “I can learn everything. I can figure everything out.” They hear her who that wanted to put everything on his back. And actually I just sit back and realize, “You know what, I need somebody to come in here to create a system or I’m just never going to be able to have staff, be able to be as productive as I am

OWEN: Okay. What was the first step you took to actually systematize the business? Do you remember?

CHRISTOPHER: Yeah. The first question, and I think everyone should ask this is where’s the most noise? Where are you getting the most pressure and the most noisy. And this is exactly where I started. It’s like where is the most noise coming from?

OWEN: And where was the most noise in your business at the time coming from?

CHRISTOPHER: With those two staff members in sales and new marketing, which is hilarious because it was my genius. I think this what a lot of people do is they are so good at doing it themselves is that they get that other people don’t share that same genius. So I said, “Oh look, it’s really easy. You just do ABCDE, go do it. Not realizing that I was doing so many kind of little things you see. And then once I passed it over to someone I thought, “Great. I Now I can focus on the other areas of my business.” And then realize there’s so much pressure and noise now coming from sales and marketing, because now I wasn’t in there. The whole paradigm of I can do it better, which is just me saying I haven’t got a system.

OWEN: I get that. And so what was the second step you took to systematize the business. Because I think the first one was realizing where the most noise came from and you mentioned where the most noise was coming from. But what was the second step you took then?

CHRISTOPHER: After identifying the problems and the areas that we should focus on I was really creating process maps. We basically posted it, noted it across the office. I hired someone, a system-orientated thinker. We asked this one question, “How could this work without any of my time input?” How could the exact same standards, the exact same delivery take place. And then we ask another question is do we automate this or do we delegate it? And so those are our two questions. How do we make this without any time? Is this something to automate or something to delegate? And basically keep that in mind. So we processed and mapped out the whole thing and put an A or a D next to it whether we thought we could create something to automate or to delegate. Now those are the next steps.

OWEN: Okay. And so I’m wondering, were there any other steps that you had to follow besides this first two that you mentioned?

CHRISTOPHER: Yeah. After that we really chunked it down into automation, delegation, the right people, the right technology. And we didn’t know about the technology that you had might not even be available back then, so we had to make it up ourselves. And we started looking for the right tech and the different piece of technology that would work, or creating a system and the right people instead of hiring the right people for the different places. It was completely fascinating. It’s just amazing to actually think through this process right now. We have an education company right now because of this process map and because of this delegation and it’s still running without me right now. And I haven’t done anything since March last year.

OWEN: I’m wondering. Back then how did you even prioritize the order of steps to take? How did you decide what systems to create first and which ones to create next?

CHRISTOPHER: Yeah. This is a great question and it’s such a tough one. But for me I believe that cash flow solves 95% problems of businesses. So we sat it there. And this is actually why we have M2M Media, because I also know that 95% of business problems that they have enough cash flow they’re going to be able to solve that with them being able to create systems. So we focus on how do we systemize creating constant cash flow and marketing. Because then I knew that I could relax and that was being taken care of and then…

OWEN: Money’s coming through the door, yeah.

CHRISTOPHER: Yeah. And just focus on the rest of it which is how to make sure that your clients are extremely happy which I believe when you’ve got enough money is completely easy.

OWEN: So basically the first part was money coming through the door, that was where your focus was, the next part was is it now delivery systems of actually delivering what you’re promising the customer.

CHRISTOPHER: Correct. Making sure that you’ve got happy, raving funds, smiley-faced customers going back out the door.

OWEN: So basically creating the process for delivering how your employers will actually deliver the stuff.

CHRISTOPHER: Correct.

OWEN: And I’m wondering was there something else after that? I think you mentioned something about engineer-minded people during the pre-interview.

CHRISTOPHER: Yeah. I guess a lot of engineer-focused people, and really, really focused on how to get their product automated. They really focus on how to make this tech or this amazing product. The challenge is I think it’s a mistake because if you don’t have the cash coming in there’s always going to be more pressure and noise. And I believe the system is there to reduce pressure and noise. And so creating the system to bring in cash flow in my opinion is more important.

OWEN: More priority, yeah. I’m wondering, back then how exactly did you even document procedures and processes for the business and even what tools do you use to do so?

CHRISTOPHER: We’re very, very sophisticated. We use Trello which is still around now. We use something called Murially to basically… I don’t believe it’s around anymore. It was a post-it note board that we could use online and share and collaborate. But definitely Trello is still around and is fantastic just for that first poster king process. But I really found that to be the first thing. We actually created as well. and this is still being used today. We created our own membership site. And the reason I use the term membership site, listeners might not call it that. But there’s just how it looks to me where our team members, we call it team work. They log-in and they can click on different tabs and different icons that take them to different trainings. So we actually built our own internal training, which is why we’re then able to do it for so many other people. And this is what’s so amazing is because of the system, now the system works for other people. And they actually consult and purchase from us and now they’re using the same system that we use. So it’s pretty cool. The next thing is we really have to manage staff. There’s a lot of things that KPI’s and… If I’ve known about your software and what you guys are doing all the things. I have to say when you guys tell me about has been very intriguing, It’s been top of the conversation in a couple of our meetings since we’ve first connected.

OWEN: Good to know.

CHRISTOPHER: It’s because we had to then figure out KPI’s and how to make sure that people are delivering and lots of other stuff. Yeah, I think anyone listening would be crazy not to go and check out what it is you’re offering, because it seems like it’s all in one place. I guess the last thing was we have basically standard operating procedures that we get. So that’s all. Our main communication tool at the moment is Slack. And Slack is absolutely brilliant company. That’s where we kind of communicate with all our managers and everything in there. There’s lots of different ways that we document.

OWEN: Okay. And so you said something about a lot of was stores in a workbook type form. And the manager sends that back to you every week. This is during the pre-interview. What was exactly?

CHRISTOPHER: We have checklists and I’m a huge believer and the book checklist is a great book. But we have checklists in KPI. They’re basically in a workbook that our managers have to send us in at the end of each week, ac checklist that checks everything off. It’s so important think Owen that you have a system that’s based on results, not just based on people doing stuff. So we reward quite heavily for different KPI’s.

OWEN: Okay. And so moving forward I’m wondering, at the time when you were actually working on creating systems for the business. I’m wondering why books or even mentors had the most influence on you and why.

CHRISTOPHER: The biggest mentor was my business partner, Mark Deason. He had read so much of systems and completely automated at a hospitality beverage business. He was so heavily into it. He had me reading Robert Fritz and Bucky Fuller were some amazing mentors. But I have to say for anyone listening that wants to just understand where I started. You can’t go past the E-Myth and Michael Gerber. You just can’t go past that. It’s so important for everything to understand systems thinking, even if you like me and you’re not really systems orientated to understand that if you can create a structure that works without you. And I think that Bucky Fuller sums it up best. Whereas if you actually start from the universe there or the highest level possible and break it down from there it definitely broke my brain I have to say. I think that the system is now the most important part of my business. And so I would employ everyone to get out there and start reading some of these books.

OWEN: Okay. Moving forward too, if we only talk about what you did and don’t present what challenges you run into I don’t think we do the issue… We’re doing the disservice because we’re not saying the full story. What was the biggest challenge you experience when you initially try to systematize your business? Do you remember?

CHRISTOPHER: Yes sir. It’s humbling to say this but motivation.

OWEN: How so?

CHRISTOPHER: I honestly think for me to be motivated, to actually create the system and not just do it, it was the hardest thing. For me to be motivated to set and break things down. I’m a people orientated person. I love being with people. I love being on the show talking to you. This is what juices me, this is what excites me. I love being in front of an audience. But sitting down and breaking down systems and processes was so hard for me to get excited about. But I knew one thing and that was that I did not want to go back to the 18-20 hours a day. So I had to focus on that big picture. And we had this game we played and it was the only way to solve it, and that was just one system a week. We would take just one thing a week. And if we did at least that we knew we were moving forward in a systems orientated way. It didn’t take long for me start really seeing the benefit of the system I guess and seeing it work. But by far being motivated to do it, so I feel people out there going, “Chris, this sounds like a lot of work.” It’s worth it.

OWEN: What will you say was the second biggest challenge that you experienced back then?

CHRISTOPHER: It’s staff. As much as you’re consistent in something you’re doing with a human being, their attitude, their motivation, what’s happening in their life, their family’s life. I could tell you so many stories of investing so much time in somebody and helping them and getting them started, and then proof that something else was on their brain, found it never died and broken, or whatever. Just being completely crazy. And that was one thing I loved about your guys’ tech. And I have to say that the fact that it’s all there, and you even built in a way to get around that is amazing because that has to be one of the biggest challenges. That learning process, you invest 3 months to have someone to learn something and then they’re gone. You start again. So definitely after motivation and staff. And if I could automate everything and not have to delegate a thing I would.

OWEN: I’m wondering beside these two you’ve mentioned were there any other challenges that you want to share? I think during the pre-interview you mentioned how getting others on-board with this system idea was an issue because they’re addicted to their own abilities or their habits I think.

CHRISTOPHER: Right. I think a lot of people really struggle to get on-board with it. Because as a business owner I was like, systems, this is going to be great. As I said I get excite about it. But at the employee level it just seemed like another task that they had to do. And the truth is it’s really just an excuse but they couldn’t see why it was important for them. Because I think inherently trying to get others to systemize what they’re doing brings out the little bit of a fear for them that they may be replaceable. There’s a lot of people that love the idea that they’re talented and that they have something that no one else could do. I think the truth is there’s a lot of talented people but most people aren’t that much better than you can find in someone else. The truth is though is if someone was to systemize what it is that they’re doing in your company suddenly there’s a risk that they aren’t needed. And that was…

OWEN: So how did you solve that problem if that was an issue for them. I’m just curious.

CHRISTOPHER: I wish I could say that I’ve completely solved that. We still have some amazing, talented people and I still go, “Hey, can you help me create a system for that? And we give you some overtime. Or can we sit down and do that?” And I still struggle to get people completely on-board. The truth is this, if you can give them enough reasons that they will. If you can give enough reasons why this is going to actually help them get more out of their work day then they will. It really came back to that and we go, “Hey, if you create this system you’re going to be able to get all this done and then focus on something else that you really love.” So one thing that we introduced that’s worked really well is creating some time aside for people to do what it is that they love, and also creating set KPI’s, that if people can hit this quicker than the time allocated then they’ve got more time to do things inside the company. I’ll give you a really great example in our hospitality company. We created something that we called guess trap which was this problem that if a regular came into our restaurant then there would be certainly people that knew that person. But if those people weren’t on that shift then that guest would spend a lot less time and have a less of an experience. So we created something called guess trap. And what we had at the back is this huge board of all about regular spaces. And we had little things that we love. If they had a nickname, the names of their children, or their wife, or their favorite sports team at this huge board as people could go out the back. If someone was new or if somebody just come on a shift and they saw someone who seems like they knew where they were and knew what they’re doing they could go out the back and they could actually have a look at this. And they go, “Oh cool, there’s four or five things I could go and start a conversation with this person.” And so we were able to find ways that could get around some of the things and getting people on-board.

OWEN: Moving forward I’m just also wondering, let’s move the story into more recent times. At what point in time did you feel like you were able to systematize the business and actually have it run without you successfully?

CHRISTOPHER: I guess it’s been a full 3-year process for us to get to that point. Really, to have this working without me was only a couple of years ago or 18 months ago, so it’s been a long journey.

OWEN: Awesome. I’m wondering, now that we’re talking about a more recent time I always like to give the listener kind of a behind the scenes of how the business currently works. Imagine your business like a conveyor belt where on one end is somebody who’s trying to have predictable leads coming in, and that’s what your business helps people do. And on the other end of that same conveyor is that customer being transformed and is excited because they’re getting the service delivered to them and they’re raving about you guys all over the internet and whatever. But behind the scenes business are different systems working together to make that happen. Can you give us a look behind the different parts of your business and how they work together?

CHRISTOPHER: Yeah. There’s a lead generation system obviously, a sale system is the follow-up system. And then there’s really the automated product delivery system. I guess those are the three big chunks, marketing, sales, fulfillment. And to follow-up all of that there’s training and recruitment. There’s really those four. They all break down into smaller bits. Marketing is really for generating interest, fulfillment is to deliver on the promises, and training is that so everyone can operate at the highest standard. And really it’s not much more complicated than that.

OWEN: Okay. I’m wondering what systems do you have right now in place to enable the employees know exactly what they should be doing?

CHRISTOPHER: They have a daily checklist and their daily checklist has their performance and the KPI’s, everything they need to get done that day.

OWEN: And how do you track and verify the results they deliver is what you’re looking for.

CHRISTOPHER: Simple. They literally tick it off and it synced into me via Slack.

OWEN: Okay. I think you said something about how you have a report sent to you by your CEO every week. What is that? Is that different from this?

CHRISTOPHER: Correct. The CEO’s going to send a report of how much everyone’s completing each week. And when I say synced into me it goes to me but I have my personal assistant that’s actually looking at it for me because if I had to look at all that every day I wouldn’t have any time.

OWEN: And since you have more free time I’m wondering which areas of your business you now focus on and why.

CHRISTOPHER: I recently got inspired by a great book by Gary Keller, which is called The ONE Thing. What do you need to focus on is exactly this Owen. It’s being on calls with you, inspiring, educating, motivating, being the face of the company, creating the contents, speaking at events, and really being that engine to let everyone know, “Hey, if you’ve got your best kept secret out there and you just want an automated and systematized marketing process well then you can plug in to what we’ve already created.” That’s my main job, is to be the face, and to write the books, and to get out there and to do that.

OWEN: Awesome. I’m wondering, what will you say is the next stage of growth for the business? What do you plan to achieve next and why?

CHRISTOPHER: The next growth phase for us, we haven’t got to the 8-figure mark and I haven’t built a business that big. It’s really just creating scale which we already have. It’s more leadership teams. It’s a lot more focused on long-term growth and really expanding that team. So we’re just over in the Philippines getting some more office space and expanding into more countries. I think since the first time we talked we didn’t have a Singapore base and now we’ve got a couple of staff over there and looking to expand there. So more countries, more teams, and going big.

OWEN: That’s awesome. Good stuff. As we’ve come to the end of the interview, if you’re trying to just give the listener a summary or maybe the next steps they should take in order to get their business systematized and running like yours, what will be those highlights that you want to leave them with as we end the interview.

CHRISTOPHER: I think the first question that they want to ask, it’s really about questions is what is my long-term vision. It’s something I believe that a lot of people say. But truly to focus in on what it is that you actually want to create and how you want it look. The second is should you be the person doing the systems or should you employ someone to do it. Honestly I’m not a systemizer and I’ve been able to employ and find the others to do it. I think it’s probably best to stick at what you’re good at. Number 3, ask yourself where’s the most pressure and the most noise. That’s where you’re going to be able to free up the most time. And then lastly is get started. If you can see some short-term ROI I think you’re going to be very, very excited to see that time freed up. And here’s the big thing. If you could just have half an hour spare a day and you could put that into your number one money making activity how would your business grow? That’s just mind blowing when you actually start to think about.

OWEN: I’m wondering, is there a question that you were wishing I would’ve asked you during the interview that I didn’t ask you. And post the question and the answer.

CHRISTOPHER: I don’t know. I think the question would be can you 100% systematize marketing? And the answer would be not 100%. Because even though you can systemize a lot of the lead generation, and the automation, and everything else I still believe in this day and age that people do want to have some sort of personal connection, personal touch, and have a personalized brand. So I believe this that you can fully systemize and automate marketing up to a million dollar mark. But once you want to really, truly expand a bit of a global business and global brand I do believe that it’s becoming more and more necessary to have that personal touch. However, as I’m saying this you could probably systemize so that it’s not you doing that personal touch and you can have staff doing it.

OWEN: That’s awesome. What’s the best way for the listener to connect with you and thank you for doing the interview?

CHRISTOPHER: I’d say reach out onto my blog, christophermduncan.com would be the number one easiest way. But also I’m a real guy so find me on LinkedIn or Facebook and say hello. I’ve got a lot of free time and if I’m in your city come and see me speak at a live event.

OWEN: That’s awesome. I’m speaking to you the listener right now who have listened all the way to this point. If you’ve enjoyed this interview I want you to do us a favor and leave us your honest feedback on iTunes. Hopefully you’ll give us a 5-star review. To get connected to the iTunes channel so that you can leave your review enter into your browser sweetprocess.com/iTunes and it will redirect you to our iTunes podcast link, and you can leave your review on there. The reason is when you leave your reviews on there other entrepreneurs will be able to check out your review and then check out SweetProcess. And hence bringing more eyeballs or listeners to The Process Breakdown Podcast. And also if you know another entrepreneur who will find this valuable please share this interview with them. And finally, if you’re at that stage in your business, whether you’re the CEO or even a manager of a department, and you’re getting to that point where you’re tired of being the bottleneck and you want to get everything out of your head so you employees know what you know and can get work done predictably without you, well, sign-up for a free 14-day trial of SweetProcess. Christopher, thanks for doing the interview.

CHRISTOPHER: My pleasure and thank you for being a shining light, helping entrepreneurs to have more free time. I appreciate you massively Owen.

OWEN: And we’re done.